Guruji: “[About Vimalananda] It’s rare to have such a combination: practice of aghora, intellectuality, as well as a sense of humor. Most so-called aghoris just sit around with a frustrated look on their faces. A touch of humor is rare. Or you can say that humor probably comes only after a certain level, after you are past the periods of frustration and toil. He can afford to laugh who has achieved something. Or rather than achievement, you can say someone who’s resolved all his questions. Then they don’t care what kind of image is being conveyed. Such a person would talk honestly, in forthright manner, and they can share a joke as well! Robert Svaboda should be considered lucky. Among all the books I’ve read, his experience is among the most interesting.
“One should also remember that Kali is basically the goddess of Tantra. She is the primary presiding deity for all black magic and other such rituals. Her universal form, etc, was later developed by philosophers. All forms of black magic rituals, hexes, death spells, human and animal sacrifices, etc, are sworn in the name of Kali. Isn’t Bengal’s black magic famous? And she is most worshiped there only. Kali’s rituals prescribe eating rice and fish in the night before repeating her mantras, and you can see that rice and fish are totally inscribed in Bengali culture. It’s compulsory for married women in Bengal to eat fish everyday!
“That’s why I don’t go to Bengal. Wherever you go there’s the smell of the fish. Not that I have a problem with what people are eating (laughs), but when you see dead fishes all around you it spoils the mood.”
Q: “Guruji, why do gods require sacrifices?”
Guruji: “It is directly related to the game of power. Whichever animal you are sacrificing, you gain control over its spirit. These are just means to become powerful in the astral world. Whether it’s the ashwamedha yagna, or human sacrifice, or lamb sacrifice, you are able to control their life-force, in a way. If you want to gain control over a spirit, why go through the trouble of looking for a spirit? Do a human sacrifice and catch the released spirit! Many tantrics and aghoris used to do that. Ultimately what’s the result? Nothing. Impress the world, get your petty things done, and gain a little feeling of power. But I’ve seen such tantrics meet very pathetic ends.”
Q: “So gods and goddesses don’t get appeased with sacrifices?”
Guruji: “Who will be appeased by a sacrifice? Their appeasement or provocation depends entirely on the intent and motivation of the person. Most sacrifices are offered to fulfill a desire or after it has been fulfilled. It’s purely a worldly matter.
“Why is there no sacrifices offered to Shiva? Sacrifices are never offered to Shiva. Only abhishek (sacred anointment, ablution). He doesn’t like sacrifices. The purest form of worship is only Shiva’s – even the priest needs to be completely vegetarian.”
Q: “Guruji, why is Shiva offered the pyre ash?”
Guruji: “Only in Ujjain Mahakala, nowhere else. The story is this: when Devi Sati immolated herself in Daksha yagna, Shiva took the ash from Her half-burned body and applied it on His body. Because he loved her so much, he carried her body on his shoulder throughout the world and rubbed her ash on himself and made a garland of her bones which he wore himself, and then removed himself into solitary meditation! That was, I think, the highest form of love expressed, ever!”
[about Trailanga Swami]
Q: “Read somewhere that Trailanga Swami worshiped Shiva-linga with his own excrements.”
Guruji: “Never heard of that, though I’ve read about him eating his own excrements. That was a famous incident: Once he got arrested due to ‘indecent exposure’. Some English memsahibs came for a stroll where he was sitting naked on the grass. Looking at him, they were shocked! ‘How horrible! Such a grotesque man is lying around naked! Arrest him.’ they cried. On their complaint, the collector put him behind bars. Now as he was walking in his prison cell, he casually ‘walked-out’ of his prison cell without getting ‘barred’ by the prison bars. It caused such a pandemonium! Sometimes he was seen strolling on the roof, sometimes outside the prison. They were not able to contain him.
“On the day of his hearing in front of the collector for ‘indecent exposure’, when the collector asked him about it, he simply said: ‘We are children of God. Children go about naked, so I’m naked. What’s the problem? Indecent or decent lies in the eye of the beholder.’
The collector asked him: ‘Do you consider everybody as equal?’.
He said: ‘Yes, everybody is equal’.
‘In that case, will you be able to eat what we eat?’ They ate beef, etc, so the collector thought that that would get the naked madman back on line.
He said: ‘Sure, if you can can eat what I eat, than I’ll eat what you eat’ . The collector thought he’s just a vegetarian Hindu, what’s the worse that could happen. So he said: ‘Yes, I’m ready’. Hearing this, Trailanga Swami shat,then and there in the courtroom, and ate it! (laughs). He was immediately released. Because even when they had imprisoned him, he was casually walking out of his cell. Nobody was able to restrain them.
“His siddhis were so powerful! Actually people’s devotion only start only with display of power; nobody cares for saintliness. Take the miracles out of Lahiri Mahasaya’s life, who would have gone to him then? Only when Trailanga Swami took him into his arms and said that ‘this man has accomplished everything without giving up anything, which I have sought by renouncing everything including my loin cloth!’ Only after his recognition Lahiri Mahasaya became famous in Banaras.
“But Trailanga Swami was a great man, there’s no doubt about that. He was one of the greatest aghoris of all time.”
Q: “It’s interesting that there were so many great people living around the same time.”
Guruji: “That’s true. There are a lot of famous people from around that time – Ramakrishna Paramahansa, Lahiri Mahasaya, Trailanga Swami, Bhaskarananda, Balananda, Totapuri, etc. But the thing is, how many contemporary people knew them? Only after people who came later read their stories that they became famous.”
[20090802-2] Recorded: July 2003