Q: “Guruji, it is said that knowledge brings deliverance. So, if someone understands food, for example, they still have a taste for it. Will their enjoyment go away?”
Guruji: “We are not talking about the end of enjoyment. It’s about the end of attraction or attachment. Hankering, actually. If somebody is addicted to something and think about it all the time, that hankering will stop. You’ll enjoy things but not live for that. I also think that the more knowledgeable or wiser you are, the higher is your enjoyment level. You will be more sensitive.
“People say that you should stay away from sensual pleasures. Now here’s a linguistic analysis: Sensuality depends on senses. Only somebody who is nonsense will not have sensual pleasures in his mind. If you have enough sense, then also you could be called sensual. Sensual word has unnecessarily been attached to sex only. This means every religion is out to make you nonsense (laughs). It’s a play on words but still a significant truth: we are born in sensuality that’s why we are sensible.”
Q: “Guruji, aren’t there rules that say that for development we should conserve sexual energy?”
Guruji: “The main reason for this rule to conserve energy is that in a particular period in a man’s life, their concentration should not break. If you had married when you were 14, you thinking direction would have been totally different. That’s why a few norms have been made: don’t marry until 25, then live as a householder between 25 and 50 years of age, then live a life of contemplation afterwards. They discovered that for development of senses this is the best plan.
“All our systems are to ensure continuity of learning; learning must go on! That’s why rebirth is assured through the cremation and last rites so that learning is not discontinued. In Hindu dharma, break in learning is not tolerated. That’s why Piṃḍa dāna [an offering of balls of food for the departed. Literally: ‘body donation’] is done to ensure next birth. In Islam and Christianity, the soul waits eternally for the judgment day, so the learning is completely frozen. That’s a basic difference: our dharma guides while living as well as after death.
“In a broader sense, everything is a sensual pleasure. Wearing good clothes is a sensual thing: as people say, ‘they have a good dress “sense”‘. When someone goes to church and pray, even that they are doing with their senses, as they have enough sense to go to church and pray. It is better to be sensible than to be nonsensical.
“Look at Jesus Christ; what did he do wrong? He only ate good food in the last supper, had his hair oiled, and feet washed. Even that was enough to get Judas Iscariot jealous: How could he be the messiah? According to him, being messiah means don’t eat good food or put oil in your hair. Then he told the authorities who was Jesus and got him caught just for 30 silver coins. His thinking was exactly like the Christian priests of today: Instead of helping the poor, how dare he buy expensive oil? Why did he talk to Mary Magdalene? And it was acceptable to him to get Jesus hanged just for that! The priests of today have exactly the same mentality.
“This means that if you are getting ready to be a messiah, you should plan on starving to death, otherwise someone else will get you killed. Now see, nobody cares what happened to Judas, but imagine that zealots like him must have established the church organization. The basis of church was service of the poor. That means the original theme, or the sense of Jesus Christ, was totally lost! This is why Christ’s life looks fine to me, but not the organization’s. What’s wrong with eating good food? (laughs)
“Someone asked me, ‘How would you imagine an Indian youth to be like?.’ I answered: Someone who is standing in the fields barefoot, with loincloth around him, can talk fluent English with the American slang, and is also carrying a cellphone in his head-wrap. A youth who doesn’t leave his roots but has the knowledge of the entire world in his hands. That’s how I imagine an Indian youth to be like.
“An Indian mind is so great that if they stay connected to their roots, they can move the world. The current system established by Britishers, even though has constrained our talents and our creativity, it has taught has how to advance in the most adverse conditions, to do something big despite all the opposite conditions. It’s a miracle in itself. That’s why Indians anywhere in the world do better than the natives there, which means they’ll dominate in the future. And here I’ll quote Jesus the Christ, ‘Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the world’. We have only been proving our meekness in the past couple of thousands of years.
“This is free thinking, a yogi’s point of view. It is not subscribed to any particular caste, creed, or nation. It is an Earthman’s free thinking, an Earthman, who appreciates Nature, admires Nature, and with appreciating and admiring Nature who is also working hard to know his own nature. We are neither condemning or condoning anybody. ‘Kabira Khada Bazaar Mein Maange Sub Ki Khair, Na Kahu Say Dosti Na Kahu Say Bair’ [Saint Kabir’s couplet, meaning: ‘Kabir, standing in the marketplace, wishes everyone well. He has neither affiliation nor quarrel with anyone.’].”
[20110324-3] Dated: Jan 2002
Thanks!
Wonderful post Aditya, as usual. Thanks for sharing such convesations.