babaji – Conversations with Guruji

Higher Living, Aghora

Q: “There was a documentary on TV which showed a tāṁtrika eating human corpses!”

Guruji: “I’ve seen it. Eating dead bodies, their own feces, etc, all these dirty deeds are part of black magic. We read that piśācas eat dead bodies – there are many descriptions in purāṇas
that they drink blood and eat dead bodies. These are not human acts, they are demonic acts. And a human will only do them if he is under the influence of a piśāca. And they claim it’s higher living! It’s the lowest of low living, guaranteed to go straight to hell!”

Q: “They claim this the life of a aghori since aghora means no distinction between good or bad!”

Guruji: “I don’t think that’s the case. Aghora means “the most beautiful”. Also know for sure that aghora is not a sectarian belief. It’s a stage of development. That what I have realized now, only after toiling in śmaśāna for 10 years! It’s not a separate path.

“Only a person who is trying to catch a ghost would eat corpses and put excrements on himself and put cotton doused in his own urine in his ears so he could contact a karṇa piśācinī . There’s no purity in all that! Avadhut Rama who we were talking about used to sit arond on a garbage dump and drink 7-8 bottles of alcohol. These people lie around in śmaśāna and carry skulls around. They dont do any spiritual practice; just stay in śmaśāna and repeat mantras. Now their founders – Aghori Kinaram, for example – must have been accomplished beings because their supernatural acts are well known.

“Take the nine Nathas on the other hand; we’ve never heard that they were chewing a chicken leg or dragging a corpse or playing football with a human skull (laughs). Yoga is really an art of highest living.”

Q: “I think people look for shortcuts.”

Guruji: “People get influenced by small siddhis so they get into this business. And once you go into the business of ghouls, that’s the life that you lead. Higher living is really a tough thing. To reach that standard is really a big thing. Because for higher living, you should have high standard, and high mental capacities. Now imagine some laborer who’s earning Rs 1500 in a month, you give him 10 million rupees one day. What will happen to him?”

Q: “He’ll go insane.”

Guruji: “He’ll go insane and won’t even be able to spend that money in anxiety. Why? Because he doesn’t have that training, doesn’t have that capacity, doesn’t have the mental status or standards in life. He’s been thinking narrowly so can’t think of higher things in life.”

Q: “Is it just a matter of training or could be sanskaar (impressions) from past birth?”

Guruji: “It could be carryover from past birth. Intelligence is not accidental.

“Higher living could be to get a chance to live in Babaji’s group. Who knows. There’s always a chance. This business about Kriya tradition he started, may be is it to recruit a new member in his club every 1000 years or 500 years. it might be. it’s quite a possibility. How he lives, what he does, nobody knows.

“Remember Jonathan Livingston Seagull: when one school is over, another begins. One qualification is achieved, who knows what’ll come next.”

[20100711-3]

Amazing Revelation!

Q: “Guruji, did Lahiri Mahasaya mention anything about his previous life in his diaries?”

Guruji: “There’s only one sentence about his previous life in his diaries, ‘my wife was my sister in the previous birth, within her love yourself’. Except this there’s nothing else! May be he decided not to reveal anything.”

Q: “What does ‘within her love yourself’ mean?

Guruji: “It may be a philosophical statement – if you love someone, basically you love yourself, because it’s reflecting your love. Someone asked me, what is the pleasure in sex? I answered that the pleasure is in yourself. The partner only helps express the pleasure. You are realizing your own self.

“This statement could also mean that since he became a father because of her, he was born as his own son, so love his son as himself.

“He didn’t mention anything else about his previous birth, or the materialization of a golden palace in the Himalayas! In fact, meeting Babaji physically is also nowhere mentioned in his diaries. The popular accounts are only from what he verbally told everyone. The only thing in the diaries is, ‘Sushuma woke and Guru was seen. Babaji’s face was seen in the kutashtha. This is yama and this is dharma‘.

“I have read his diaries many times since guruji [Shri Satyacharan Lahiri Mahasaya] used to open them for us. Babaji is nowhere mentioned except in the above two instances. Neither is the golden palace mentioned anywhere. But his experiences were extraordinary! No saint had ever written about such experiences.

“[language] He wrote in Hindi, Bengali, and English, but always in a different script – for example Hindi text in Bengali script, or Bengali text in English script, etc. Never wrote Bengali in Bengali, for example.

“He wrote a lot about visions of Lord Krishna. Saw the same form of Babaji and Krishna. He had many visions of Radha-Krishna and Shiva-Parvati. It was a very mysterious program. Only three years of his experiences are recorded. There was a boom of experiences in the starting, there there were no hints of any experiences. But whatever was recorded is dynamite! And these are guidelines – whoever does kriya should have similar experiences. That is the beauty of this yoga practice.

“Lahiri Mahasaya also never discussed his own experience with his disciples, but kept giving them guidance and guidelines. And after his death, people started different cults based on these statements! He also never liked sanyasis (hermits)! He started the householder yogi’s tradition.”

[20110108-2] Recorded: Dec 24, 2003

* * * * * *

Guruji: “Had an unbelievable revelation! I’m surprised that we missed this obvious fact till now:

“We’ve read Lahiri Mahasaya’s diaries. In his life, Trailanga Swami’s name appears quite prominently. Trailanga Swami made him famous in Kashi with his statement, ‘He has attained this high state while remaining a householder, for which I had to discard even my loincloth!’ Even the king of Kashi came to Lahiri Mahasaya on the suggestion of Trailanga Swami, otherwise why would anybody go to an average Bengali’s house, leave alone the king!

“Trailanga Swami’s origin was mysterious, but his end was even more mysterious. He went in Samadhi, and told people to put him in a wooden box and throw it in Ganges. Nobody saw the box drown, it floated away in the river. Another interesting fact is that Trailanga Swami only took alms from the household of Lahiri Mahasaya’s father-in-law, and not from anyone else his entire life. All this means is that he was Babaji himself, in a different form, and kept Lahiri Mahasaya in front of him his entire life and guided him every step of the way!”

“Lahiri Mahasaya used to go to Batuk Bhairava’s temple every Sunday, all alone, which was very close to Trailanga Swami’s place. Also, Trailanga Swami’s only disciple, Shankari Mayi Jiu, used to come to meet Lahiri Mahasaya. There must be a reason why Trailanga Swami only took alms from only one man’s house. Since Kashimani Devi was a single child, it is possible that Trailanga Swami taught the only son-in-law of the house. It’s quite a possibility.

“Also, the whole episode of meeting Babaji and the appearance of a golden palace is nowhere mentioned in Lahiri Mahasaya’s diaries! It is also a fact that Trailanga Swami lived for 280 years in Kashi, and nobody really saw him die. That means he was immortal.

“It’s a remarkable analysis, which also opens many possibilities.”

[20110108-2] Recorded: Dec 2003

Nath Sampradaya

Q: “Guruji, I wonder what goes on in the mind of a self-realized man? What do they think about? Are they in some other time-zone altogether?”

Guruji: “(laughs) nothing goes on in their mind. See, when alone, the mind is totally quiet. And during discussion, what comes out is more as a reaction to whom I’m speaking to.”

Q: “We’ve learned so many things in these discussions.”

Guruji: “A disciple should have at least this much information. Otherwise, what’s the point of being a guru?

“Till now, our discussions have mainly focused on matter – earthly matters. Slowly they reach Void. That could be an interesting discussion. Then we’ll talk about Time!

“What we’ve said is that Earth is like a queen in this whole creation. But the creation itself is so vast! What is its extent, what are its attributes? We are still to talk about that. But as they say, charity begins at home. Until we are Earth-conscious, we’ll not be creation-conscious. And until we are creation-conscious, what is beyond this creation we’ll not be able to grasp.

“Still, we’ve discussed a lot of things. Even Vimalananda wasn’t able to discuss all these (laughs)”

Q: “A lot of what I’ve read in his books I had already known from you. That’s why I thought he was authentic.“

Guruji: “Yeah, even though he wasn’t ultimately a yogi, he did a few tantra practices, and even those require practice of concentration. Concentration is required everywhere. Without that, how can you achieve anything in life? He must have had an interesting personality.”

Q: “Guruji, whose personality do you find most fascinating in our tradition?”
Guruji: “Matsyendra Nath. In my opinion, he is the greatest Guru of all time.

“There’s a complete chapter on Matsyendra Nath in Narada Purana, second chapter. He is called Siddha Nath in Narada Purana; that’s also one of his names. Shiva-ji is saying “Siddha Nath is my son”, which is then followed by his full description.”

Q: “Guruji, how is Matsyendra Nath-ji related to our tradition, kriya yoga?”

Guruji: “He was the first yogi guru after Shiva, in human form. Remember that verse from Hatha Yoga Pradipika: ‘Matsyendra and Goraksha knew this art. With their blessing, Swatmaram knows it now’.

“Whatever you are practicing was first taught by Matsyendra Nath, remember!“

Q: “In the current lineage, who have you found fascinating?”

Guruji: “In the current tradition no one has fascinated me so far, except Babaji. I’m not impressed with anybody’s personality. Babaji’s personality I’m a big fan of. Since we are in his lineage, in a way we are his disciples.

“All these traditions are somehow related to the Nath tradition. After all, they were the original yogis! The problems have arisen out of recent attempts to create groups or organizations around yoga teachings. That is not acceptable. It has compromised the gravity and beauty of this art.”

Q: “Guruji, in the olden times, was it not like a sect? It was still called Nath samapradaya?”
[‘samapradaya’ commonly means a group]

Guruji: “See, samapradaya means ‘to give equally’ –sama means ‘equal’, pradaya means ‘to give’. Basically to teach what we have learned ourselves. Now if you are teaching equally, you’d have to follow the strict discipline, along with all the pledges. These days it has nothing to do with teaching equally. Now it means a cult or a group.

“Now yoga traditions were the only true samapradaya, because if you don’t teach what you’ve practiced, how would anybody learn? It was never about creating followers, or have disciples lie at the feet of the guru, getting kicked around, in the hope that one day guru maharaja would wake up and with one blessing turn their life around.

“And the guru would know that if he told the disciple whatever little he knew himself – some mantra or something else – then the disciple wouldn’t give a damn about him anymore. So they’d continue to keep it a secret. This is exactly what has happened in most tantric traditions.

“There have been so many cults around Bhakti (devotion). Why do you think that the only display of power was done by people who started these cults, and not by their subsequent followers? That is because they used to practice something else and taught their followers something else.

“Only in yoga one teaches what one practices, and that is true samapradayikta, whatever be its definition today. Otherwise, the standards could not be maintained. This approach is nowhere else. Even Yogananda didn’t teach what he himself learned.

“The teachings should never be trifled with! Nobody is born such a genius that they could better the results arrived at by the old masters. After so many austerities and hard work they extracted the essence of these techniques and passed down that essence to their future generations. Why be a wise-ass and corrupt that knowledge? Only if you follow the instructions exactly as given you’ll get the results, not otherwise.

“That’s why there aren’t so many yoga traditions, only a couple. There are many meditation groups, but they are not becoming yogis. Only when you follow the yogic way of life with all its discipline, and then someone tells you the mysteries of these teachings, the awareness will develop.

“At least now you’ll never practice [the commonly misunderstood form of] Mahavedha from Hatha Yoga Pradipika (laughs). Still, I’m very proud that my disciples are making good progress.”

Q: “Guruji, do you think we’ll get to see these original founders of Yoga”?

Guruji: “Of course! If I’ve had their blessings, my disciples shall too.

But the blessing came only because of perseverance in the practice, otherwise why would it have come? Never accept the ordinary. Always try to do better than your capacity. That’s what matters.”

[20090802-2] Recorded: July 10, 2003

Commentaries, Immortality, Babaji

Guruji: “Sometimes I feel that if I hadn’t been working out with Mudgars (heavy Indian clubs) or Bullworker, I would have had nervous breakdown in Gwalior itself – commentary on Gita, Yoga Dardhan, Shiva Sutra took such a tremendous effort! I’m glad that I had been doing body-building which is why I was able to tolerate the experience. See for yourself – anybody who has done commentary on Gita didn’t live much longer after that. Except for Sri Krishna, he lived for 36yrs after saying Gita.

“It has been 12 years now. I don’t feel like looking at my books again – may be the mental fatigue of the work is still there in the mind. I answer when someone asks a question about my commentary, otherwise I don’t talk about them. Repetition of what I said 12 years ago get a little bit irksome. A yogi’s mind continues to develop. These books clarify the fundamental understanding. In the last 12 years, a lot of intricate details and peculiarities have become clearer now. Mr X came the other day to discuss my commentary on Gita. It was my good fortune that he developed fever the next day and I was spared (laugh). If you can live with Mr. X for 2 months, you’ll definitely become paramhansa. See, I’m telling you a short-cut to achieve paramhansa state. And if you don’t become paramhansa, will have to put you in a mental asylum and bring you flowers (laugh). God really listens in difficult times. I was getting very concerned about the impending doom (laugh).”
..
“You must have noticed that your face looks younger after practice. Sometimes I feel that the secret of Babaji’s immortality is hidden in these yoga practices. Otherwise the change in skin tone or the younger look on the face would not have been possible.”

Aditya: “Guruji, why the old gurus, Lahiri Mahasaya and others, did not maintain a young look or live a long life?”

Guruji: “Lahiri Mahasaya’s case was different. Babaji had given him specific objective, which he was able to successfully accomplish with single-minded and concentrated work. His body also didn’t have the qualities required for preservation for longevity. Your body needs to be qualified to be immortal. These yoga practices that I teach have been introduced after a long time. I do feel there’s something about it, somewhere there’s the secret of immortality hidden in it. The body gets stronger with age and the looks remain the same. Of course, the brain also develops, which is the key objective. I have observed one more difference. My aura has turned bright white now. It used to look golden but now it is crystalline white. This change came about in the past few months. Outer edges are golden but inner area is crystalline white, and it is as bright as before. It’s a sign of progress.”

Q: “In Oscar Wilde’s novel “The Picture of Dorian Gray”, the picture grows old but Dorian Gray doesn’t. What do you think about this story?”

Guruji: “I’ve read it. It’s a psychological novel like Dr Jekyll and Hyde, that every person has an other side. I really like his work. His story ‘The Canterville Ghost’ is quite hilarious! Have you read it? It’s very funny. Actually it’s a satire on a typical American family.”

Q: “I’ve also observed that sometimes the expression or the mood in a photograph appears to change. Is it psychological or does it really happen?”

Guruji: “It actually happens. What is a photograph? It’s a likeness. That means, if there’s a strong connection between you and the person in the photograph, like with your parents or Guru, or if the person is mentally very powerful, you may see their expressions change on special occassions. It’s a communication link. For example, Babaji’s murti (idol, effigy) has sometimes totally different expressions on his face! Many people have seen that, way too many. Day before yesterday, some people observed smile on the face of our Hanumanji’s murti. They got very scared.

“I’ve observed that with my photograph taken at the cottage (in Gwalior). My looks and expressions keep changing in that photograph. Some days it looks very powerful, some days very weak. Some days the face is very bright, sometimes irritated. This means that whatever is my mood that day gets reflected in that picture. “

Q: “You had mentioned the look in Babaji’s eyes.”

Guruji: “Yeah, his eyes have a verrry ancient look in them. When you look at his physical appearance, he looks like a young man – you can probably place him in 35-40 years. But when you look into his eyes, they have a very ancient look. The impressions appear very ancient. This is sort of expected. What you experience is registered in your mind, and eyes reflect your mind. An immortal being’s eyes reflect all his experiences! He has a very penetrating gaze. It feels like he can see through you. You also feel very nervous in front of him. which is but natural. My last meeting with him was 9 years ago (Dec 1995). There hasn’t been any meeting in person since then. Even the second meeting was 7 years after the first one (April 1st, 1988). Let’s see what happens next.”

[20090801] Recorded: June 13th, 2004