Guruji: “Struggle is never-ending. I think if the struggle in life went away, we would die of boredom! Only when you relax for a moment after the struggle is over, you feel real happiness. Then new struggle begins, with new challenges. When that finishes, you feel happy again. But the feeling becomes grander and grander with each challenge.

“If you sit around doing nothing, without any struggle, then there’s nothing else but boredom. The more opposition you face, the more positive, extra-ordinary development of your personality happens. If there are two men, one who has struggled and one who hasn’t, the one who has struggled would be more knowledgeable. And to rise or to develop, you do have to struggle.”

Q: “Milarepa’s story is so inspiring! And it’s not like he had signs from his childhood that he’s going to be a great soul.”

Guruji: “His story is very inspiring. The biggest thing is the feeling of revenge that was borne in him. That feeling gave him so much strength that not only he took revenge upon his enemies, but also used the same strength to gain knowledge and self-realization. A weak person can’t even exact revenge. They say things like ‘whatever god wants will happen’ to excuse themselves. He at least took proper revenge. And when he felt guilty about killing so many innocent people, the power that he had developed to take the revenge, he was able to use it positively. That’s why he is a legendary figure today. The feeling of revenge gives a lot of energy.”

Q: “Really?”

Guruji: “Of course! Take Ravana out of Rama’s life, what will be left? Or take Kansa out of Krishna’s life, Krishna won’t be Krishna anymore. These are the highlights of their lives. This means that the feeling of revenge is what brings meaning in life (laughs).

“Main point is that opposition should be there. Without any opposition, how will you be refined? How will you prove that I can face any kind of opposition and come out a winner? Even in bodybuilding, the training principle is called Progressive Resistance. Only by increasing resistance you develop further. So is with life.

“Now even local people (in Govardhan) have started taking notice of me. They have always been taking notice, but now finally it’s going in positive direction. Some news reporters had come, they gave us good coverage in local newspapers, about rudraksha and kalpa-vraksha trees in the campus. People are totally stunned reading about it. Last Monday they even published about Shiva-linga.”

Q: “Aren’t people resistant to change?”

Guruji: “In the beginning everybody is resistant to change. If you tell them a new thing, the first response is always, ‘No, how can that be possible?’. It’s the same situation world over.

“That’s when I thought it was futile to explain. There were a lot of quarrels with the local people in the beginning, so I stopped talking to them. Now these days they are very anxious that I talk to them, let them inside the academy campus. I don’t pay any heed to them.

“All in all it has only benefited me. All these difficulties have developed one aspect of my personality which probably would never have developed. If somebody is coming to fight you, you could only do two things: come out to face them or bow down before them and run away. And if you bow down, you’d never be able to face yourself in a mirror again, if you have even a little bit of self-respect. I took a stand and challenged them to do whatever they could.

“Once about 60-70 people came to fight. I was by myself and with didi [Guruji’s sister, Mataji]. We both faced them, and they all ran away ultimately. That boosted our confidence significantly.”

Q: “What did they want?”

Guruji: “One thing was that when I came here, they got jealous that I bought such a big place and they couldn’t. And then I stopped their ‘free for fall’ (using campus grounds for ‘morning rituals’). So they picked a petty excuse and came to fight. My servants and the watchmen all ran away, only didi and I were left behind. And the furious face and anger that I must have developed – only they saw it, I can only imagine – all of them got scared and ran away.”

Q: “Did you get very angry?”

Guruji: “Very angry. I was ready to do anything. If someone keeps irritating you for no reason, then ultimately you can’t control the anger. Though one should have tremendous amount of self-control. If you have extraordinary physical strength, much more than average, that you can lift a man with one hand, and you lose control in the middle of a mob, only the mob will be on the losing end. The consequences may be serious. And here an average man is pretty pathetic, no more than 50-60kgs.

“These kinds of confrontations kept on going. Now we haven’t had one in a few years. Whoever came to openly fight me, they all died mysteriously. And this also created a different type of reputation. If our count is correct, so far 46 man have died in the last 9 years. It’s been very peaceful since then. I didn’t understand in the beginning what was happening. When I understood, I withdrew myself. Stayed inside and didn’t engage in fight with them.

“The main point is if you have to do a big task, a proportionally strong opposition also comes. If you are able to face it, things get progressively smother.”

Q: “Does somebody keep testing whether you can take this opposition or not?”

Guruji: “Think of it this way: I was introduced as an antibiotic drug here. An infection was spreading on a certain portion of Mother Earth, and I was introduced as with anti-bacterial properties to eliminate the infection. Struggle was inevitable. And what are we in the eyes of Mother Earth, nothing more than virus or bacterias.

“We can see the difference in 9 years. The entire area has changed. Goverdhan Parikrama has gone beyond everybody’s wildest dreams! This Guru Purnima, more than 10 million people crossed in 24 hours. Management was very good. After that, suddenly a very eerie silence has spread everywhere. No noise of quarrels, loud speakers, etc. Also, government is taking over management of temples so all the pandas [rowdy caretakers of Hindu temples] are in shock – their source of income is gone. Things are getting better.

“It has been a remarkable series of changes. Government’s attention is now finally here. Electricity used to be out for 5 days, which is almost inconceivable in the western society. Now government has ordered 24-hour electric supply, especially in Goverdhan. Tourist department gave a proposal for 66 million rupees for facelift of our campus. They’ll do the lighting, full repair, and water supply. We’ll only have to pay the bill. Agreement is between myself – the owner of the property – and the governor of UP, that archeological department will look after this property. It is the first time ever in India an agreement like this has been made between a private property owner, archeological department, and the state government.

“It took a very long time and a lot of effort, but things are looking better. We had come in absolute opposition – no friendly person around at all! Nothing beyond thorny bushes and cactus.

Q: “You have set a big example.”

Guruji: “I haven’t set this example for anyone else. It’s ultimately for my own development. The place started looking better, status increased. All my disciples got inspired, their confidence increased. Because what I have done I have taught everyone. No more, no less. Anybody can do anything. The basic thing is that the man should be prepared. There’s an English saying: Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. You have to prepare yourself. And with proper preparation, the team that forms will be of specialists. And ultimately team only performs.”

[20100711-2] Recorded: Oct 2002

The Detestable Vedic Times

Q: “Guruji, why did Shiva-ji instruct Agastya rishi to go to South India?”

Guruji: “It’s strange story. Once upon a time the Vindhyachal mountain became jealous of the Himalaya and started rising to become the highest mountain. Eventually it started creating problems, so Shiva-ji asked Agastya rishi to go to the south, as the mountain would have to stay low to give him passage, and instructed the rishi to tell the mountain to not rise until he returned. The rishi went to south India and never returned, and the mountain stayed low till this day (laughs). It could be symbolic as well – the rishi might have controlled the mountain with his powers .

“It’s only due to Agastya rishi’s impact that the south Indian culture is so rich. Shiva-ji’s worship is very common, and compared to the north, the common man is more educated as well as peaceful and well-behaved.”

Q: “So, Guruji, should we identify ourselves with Aryans or Dravidians?”

Guruji: “It’s all mixed up now. We are definitely not Aryans, because Aryans used to butcher cows and eat their meat. Vedas are full of these references.”

Q: “I thought killing a cow was always considered the biggest sin!”

Guruji: “Only in recent times, after Lord Krishna’s advent. It wasn’t like this before. I read a story in vedas long time back in which Vashistha rishi went to someone’s place and in his welcome feast, young healthy calves were slaughtered and their delicate meat was served. There was a king named Raktidev. In his kingdom, 10,000 cows used to be slaughtered everyday in honor of rishis and brahmins. An entire river formed out of washing the hides of those slaughtered cow – the Chambal river. The original name of Chambal river is Charmanavati – formed out of charma (hide).

“Krishna was the first person to revolutionize vedic culture, which also seems like was his primary objective. He deposed Indra – the main deity of vedas – and stopped worship of Brahma. Krishna’s work was revolutionary! Before Him, all avatars came only to help Indra, as Vishnu is Indra’s younger brother – Upendra. Krishna stopped Vishnu’s worship and started a new tradition of caring for cows. That’s why he was called Gopal [go = cow, pal = to raise]. He started the worship of Goverdhan mountain and gave the discipline of cow-herding, which became the most virtuous of all work. No one else did all this before.

“Also, what we call the degradation of Hindu culture is basically uprooting of the vedic culture. Brahmins had become very powerful and corrupt. If a lower-caste person were to hear vedic verses by mistake, they would fill molten lead in his ears. There was no limits to cruelty at that time, however Hindus feel about it today. They have no idea what kind of changes Krishna has brought.

“The old vedic gods got so out of control, they even stood up against Shiva! After Daksha yagya, when they opposed Shiva just to get a part of sacrificial offerings and Mother Sati had to die, they have been continuously getting punished. That’s why no vedic god is worshiped today – neither Vishnu, nor Brahma, Pusha, Varuna, or anybody else. New gods have emerged – Rama, Krishna, Hanuman, Radha-Krishna. Even a child makes fun of Indra. This means they were not as noble as have been portrayed in vedas.

“Also, if you read carefully, it’d feel like these vedic rituals were more like hardcore tantric rituals. For example, king Harishchandra couldn’t have a child. So he appeased Varuna, who said you’ll beget a son but you’ll have to give it to me at a particular age. When the time came, Harishchandra didn’t give his son to Varuna, so he fell seriously ill. To appease Varuna again, he did a yagya which required human sacrifice. Vishwamitra rishi presided over the yagya ceremony. It’s a touching story and also very famous. For the human sacrifice, Vishwamitra suggested the king to buy somebody. One poor Brahmin had 3 sons. The eldest one Brahmin refused to part with as the eldest son was going to continue his lineage. The mother refused to part with the youngest son as he was very dear to her heart. The middle son they sold to the king for money. In the story he was saved in the end – when he was tied to the sacrificial pole, he became enlightened since he had overcome the attachment of mother and father, and started uttering verses of vedas. Vishwamitra refused to kill the boy, claiming that he had now reached the state of a rishi.

“But the main point is, there used to be such rituals when human sacrifices were offered. You must have heard about Ashwamedha yagya; in that, the horse used to be sacrificed at the end. Just like people today donate cows believing that after death they would cross the Vaitarni holding the cow’s tail, at that time kings used to sacrifice horses believing that after they die, they’d find a horse standing there, all saddled and ready, to take them to heaven!

“Today no one would like to do such rituals. Also, yoga wasn’t very well known. There used to be a sect called vraatya, who used to do fasts, etc. Among them there used to be a few yogis. But they were always segregated since they didn’t accept vedic rituals.”

Q: “Guruji, weren’t rishis yogis?”

Guruji: “They were expert in rituals and had tantric powers. Not all rishis were yogis – some were. Rishis have just been vying to control the gods. The only stories you hear about them are how they got tempted by this nymph and that nymph. You wouldn’t find such stories about yogis. That’s probably people say that we are children of rishis and munis – they were always about impregnating some queen or seducing some princess (laughs). And they were so powerful that everybody had to abide.

“There’s a story in Chandogya Upanishad: There was a king named Janushruti. One day, the king was standing on the roof of his palace when some swans flew past, making sounds like ‘raikva, raikva’. In sanskrit it means whatever is there is with Raikya.

“So the king searched for a Raikya and he found one Raikya sitting naked near a bullock-cart, scratching his back. When the king asked for knowledge, Raikya threw him out saying that a low-caste king didn’t deserve such knowledge. The king had a daughter, about 15-16 years old, and very beautiful. The king went to Raikya again and offered his daughter to him. Raikya said, ‘O king, even though you are not worthy, your daughter’s beautiful face is compelling me to give you the knowledge’. And then he gave him knowledge that everything is air! But the moral of the story is that Raikya rishi got aroused by the princess and to get her, he gave the king a little bit of information.

“Vedas as filled with such stories. We should be glad that we are born in a time free of the shackles of vedas, thanks to Lord Krishna. The government has now banned cow-slaughter MP – the first thing Uma Bharti did as part of her new administration. In Chattisgarh as well. This is a good improvement.

“We can conclude that Lord Krishna brought about the end of vedic times. Even in Gita he has denounced vedas three times. Nobody wants to go heaven now. Everybody’s preaching now-a-days that there’s nothing in heaven, we should seek the lotus feet of this god (laughs), or seek liberation, or self-realization.”

[20110108-2] Recorded: Dec 24, 2003

The End of Vedic Times

Q: “Guruji, we see that the human condition in society degrades and then evolves over time. But it seems to develop on its own. What is the role of gods in that?”

Guruji: “Gods don’t have a role to play in that.”

Q: “Then why worship them?”

Guruji: “Who does that anymore? Vedic gods are no longer worshiped. Indra, who was the foremost deity of vedas, is mocked by even children today. His tenure is already over, and King Bali has taken over.

“It feels like the new administration is going to be permanent. King Bali is the emperor of the Netherworld, and now he’s also the ruler of Heaven. The earlier Indra only had dominion over the heaven. Second, king Bali is already immortal, and Vishnu is his gatekeeper, since after giving all the three worlds to Vishnu, King Bali earned so much merit that Vishnu had no choice! That’s why Vishnu is no longer worshiped either – he’s been replaced by Rama and Krisha.

“The change is quite evident. Vedic rituals are disappearing, Indra’s worship is over, and Krisha established Goverdhan puja after defeating Indra. Bali puja and Goverdhan puja fall on the same day; they might be one and the same. Vedic dharma has now become Hindu dharma – we are being identified as Hindus. Vedic gods have disappeared, Indra was castigated, Vishnu ran away, and new gods have emerged. Only the eternal gods [aadi-dev] have survived – Shiva and Shakti. Krishna and Rama are getting worshiped, and Goverdhan has its own place in India.

“Besides, vedic culture is almost gone; everybody wears shirts and pants which nobody had even heard about in those times. And if you read Gita, Krishna Himself had denied vedas:

Vedas are limited to the three gunas. O Arjuna, rise above them. [Gita 2.45]

Those who are engrossed in pleasures and are only committed to the Vedas which eulogize the fruits of ritualistic karmas, such thoughtless people keep making pompous and flowery remarks. [Gita 2.42]

“He established yoga and now you see the world over people are only talking about yoga. So it seems the change has already taken place.”

Q: “But Guruji, the gods were already immortal. How could they disappear?”

Guruji: “They must be leading a retired life somewhere. The main thing, they are not in power anymore, they don’t have any control. King Bali became immortal even without drinking ambrosia. How could the other gods have faced him then? Shiva-ji also never drank ambrosia, but He is Mahadeva.

“Brahma was the first vedic god. He has no temples anymore. Second was Vishnu, but he is also left with a very few temples in India – he’s been replaced by Rama and Krishna. Rudra was the main deity and He still remains. He is the only one with the power of destruction.

“After that, we have Savita, Mitra (Indra), and Varuna as the foremost gods in vedas which are nowhere to be found. So the tenure of these 5 gods is over. Only Rudra has remained. But even He is now known as Shiva. Nobody says Rudra anymore, except in case of Shiva-ji’s puja which is called Rudrabhishek.

“It’s a clear changeover. And since king Bali has dominion over the three worlds, he must have done something that all races are coming together. Foreigners, who were once considered untouchables, are being accepted everywhere, and followers of vedas, who always considered themselves superiors, are living the most dejected lives these days. Even a sweeper is better off than them. Those who are reciting “Rama Rama” or those reading Bhagvat and Gita have reached the top. All this data proves that change has taken place.

“Tantra influence has increased as well. The ten Mahavidhyas and other tantric knowledge given by Shiva are more popular than vedas these days. It means a new type of program has started already.

“Besides, all the foreign invasions in India fundamentally destroyed vedic culture only. Adi Sankaracharya denied vedas and propagated vedanta [literally “end of Veda”]. What could they do to yogis? Nothing!

Also, nobody does rituals for gods anymore. No more singing praises of Indra’s glory! In my opinion, the kind of punishments he has received no one has ever had. Like when he violated Gautam rishi’s wife, the rishi cursed him, ‘you are going crazy after vaginas, you yourself will grow 1000 vaginas!’. He’s the only one in the entire history to have 1000 vaginas! That’s how he got the name Sahastrabhaga.

Q: “and what about Kubera?”

Guruji: “He’s a friend of Shiva-ji. His Alkapuri is right next to Kailash. Also, see, Lakshmi-ji used to grant prosperity; now that department belongs to Kubera. Even in front of our Reserve Bank there’s a status of Kubera.

“Once upon a time puranas were considered secondary after vedas, but now the roles have reversed. Upanishads are still being read since they don’t have anything abour vedas, and they don’t have any reference to Indra. All things related to Indra and vedic gods have disappeared. That means, King Bali has taken over. This also means there’ll be some state of filtering and weeding out of people, and then all races will come together.

“Until know there has been constant conflict between suras and asuras. Veda-followers always thoughts themselves as superiors. King Bali has proven that vedic people are not superior by getting then beaten by once-untouchable foreigners. And see, after they beat vedic people, they are now running after our spiritual knowledge – yoga, tantra, aghora.

“Also the reasoning behind our belief that King Bali and Goverdhan are one and the same is that Krishna defeated Indra and established Goverdhan worship. Before him, no avatar opposed Indra. He was the only one, and He beat Indra not only once but three times! There’s a famous line in Gita:

To destroy evil-doers and to establish dharma, I appear time and again in every age.

He established dharma by starting Goverdhan worship and putting an end to Indra’s worship. And the end of worship for a god means the end of him, because all means of his ‘tax revenue’ are gone! Just like kings survive on taxes, gods survive on worships.”