Manifesting the Immortal Substance

Q: “Guruji, are mana (mind), buddhi (intellect), viveka (discrimination) the same or different?”

Guruji: “In totality it’s the Mind. Just like hands, legs, head, etc are different organs of the same man, similarly buddhi, viveka, etc are different parts of the mind. Mind is basically one.”

Q: “Then why do we have conflict in the mind?”

Guruji: “It’s actually a mechanism induced by Nature inside us to gain knowledge. How will you draw a conclusion if you don’t think from different directions? Without friction there’s no energy, and every conflict is created by nature to generate energy. Without conflicts we’d all be leading a vegetable life.”

Q: “Does that mean conflicts are induced from outside?”

Guruji: “It just means that the mind is processing what you are experiencing. Those who don’t understand that get worried about the conflicting thoughts in their mind. See, as soon as you see or hear anything, you are mentally involved. The mind will store and process the information, and until it reaches some conclusion there will be conflicts appearing in the mind.

“Quiet mind doesn’t mean an inert position. Einstein said when an object travels at the speed of light, it is in the perfect rest condition. Those who appear quiet, may be the speed of their mind is way too high. This means that their mind is working or vibrating at a rate which is beyond our imagination, so we think it is inert, but it is too fast for us. When we say that someone has become inert in samādhi, it may mean that they have gone in the perfect rest condition, and their consciousness has gone beyond the light-speed and is vibrating in a very high realm. This is exactly what happens.

“It is like the story of the caterpillar and the butterfly. Caterpillar is not trained to see the butterfly who will fly away leaving the cocoon behind when the time comes, while the caterpillar mourns for the cocoon. Life is a deep thing.”

Q: “Sometimes there are conflicts between different actions as well, which has different results. For example, should I eat tasty food or do some exercise.”

Guruji: “Instead of hankering after the memory of food, it’s better to eat it and be done with it. You should also remember that taste doesn’t fill your stomach. So fill taste, but not stomach. Stomach will fill only with bread, not with chocolate. This is a proof of the advancement of human civilization that we invented chocolate: No bird has been able to make omelette even though eggs come them them only. Similarly no cow can make yogurt or ghee even though it produces the milk.”

Q: “It makes sense. But sometimes I wonder if such processing actually means we are going from natural to unnatural.”

Guruji: “In a way it is not, as I’ve already said that to make ghee is like going from mortality to immortality.”

Q: “How?”

Guruji: “Here’s how: People say that the soul is omnipresent, and everybody has a soul which is immortal. But even though we have an immortal substance inside us, we still die. What is immortality then? Somebody asked me that so I gave them this answer:

“Cow gives milk. Milk has ghee in it, but in the raw milk it is not visible. And despite the presence of that immortal substance, the milk goes bad or sour. The process to extract ghee from milk is like a yogic discipline: first you heat milk then cool it off, then turn it into yoghurt, then churn the yogurt, then take the butter out, then heat the butter, and then the substance which comes out, ghee, is immortal. Pure ghee doesn’t go bad even in hundreds of years. Similarly, soul is in everybody which is immortal. But those who don’t go through this process, through yogic austerities, they’ll never realize its immortality nor will they ever experience their soul.”

Q: “Wow!”

Guruji: “Mind blowing, isn’t it? The soul is omnipresent, but to reveal it or to manifest it we have to do tapasyā. Just like ghee comes out of milk after so many transformations, similarly, with yoga sādhanā after so many transformations a man reaches his immortal substance, which was always inside him. But to bring it forth, he has to go through through these transforming processes.

“Anybody could wag their tongue that the soul is omnipresent. Yes, we know it’s omnipresent; who doesn’t know that? (laughs) But how to catch it, how to realize it, how to make it appear? That will not be possible without tapasyā. Everybody has a body and a soul; every cow gives milk. But here a realized master, a man of knowledge, a guru is needed, who knows how to extract ghee out of the milk, who can tell you everything about the body and it’s potential and how to transform it. Those who mislead people into philosophy shouldn’t be considered as gurus.”

Q: “This also proves why tapasyā is necessary for everyone.”

Guruji: “Tapasyā is only necessary for those who want to do it, who have understood. For someone who is beginning to understand his divinity, who is beginning to realize, ‘how I look is not really everything I am. I could develop to a much more sublime height, I could even be immortal. All the necessary ingredients are within me. I should learn all the processes for this development, and I am ready for all the physical and mental transformations as a result of these processes.’

“It takes time to understand these things – took me years. In the beginning, everybody repeats the common words: self realization or god realization. That’s all! But ‘self realization’ describes this exactly. God realization is a vague thing, but self realization is closer to the reality.”


Light: Gross or Subtle?

A disciple asked Guruji: Is light gross or subtle?

Guruji answered:

“Light is gross, because it can only illuminate 3 out of 5 elements of matter – Earth, Water, and Fire. It passes through the other two elements – Air and Sky – so they are not visible to us. According to the Indian thought, Earth, Water, Fire, Air, and Sky are the five gross elements of material world. We are only able to see the first three, since they reflect light. Since light can only illuminate the grosser elements of matter, it is gross and not subtle.

“This also implies that anything we see, we only see 60% of it, since the two elements – Air and Sky – which light doesn’t reflect, we are not able to see. This means that even our physical appearance is only 60% visible; 40% remains invisible!

“Another important thing to note is that only those things which reflect light ultimately go through decay. Those things which don’t reflect light don’t. We don’t see the destruction of air or sky, but fire, which depends on material objects for its survival, eventually dies out. Water also gets evaporated or gets stale. And solid objects in all forms eventually disintegrate; scientists already have various forms of measurements for that.

“Decay is based on the rays of light. What doesn’t reflect light doesn’t get decayed.

“We’ve also read about Babaji that his shadow doesn’t form. This means what doesn’t reflect light must be immortal!”

[20111110] Nov 11, 2011

Be Conscious of Mother Earth: The Supreme Soul

“[.. continued from before] we talked about ātmā (soul) and paramātmā (the Supreme Soul, God). You have a soul. Then what is the Supreme Soul? Which is the soul of your soul, or, in other words, that on which the existence of your soul depends. Based on that, Mother Earth is the Supreme Soul. We are supposed to realize the supreme soul, and instead a vague concept of a distant, hypothetical God living in skies has been handed over to us. People say God is omnipresent: go anywhere in the world, Earth is everywhere! And don’t know when we’ll go in outer space, even there land will be needed.”

Q: “Then Guruji, what should a person do? It must be so hard to communicate with Mother Earth.”

Guruji: “A person should live a very natural life, and should try to tune with the mind of Earth, or tune with the life-force – the force of life – of Earth. That’s all. Without tuning in, will not understand the union, as we’ve discussed before. Tuning is necessary.

Q: “So it is mainly a thinking process?”

Guruji: “It’s not a thinking process. When the actual tuning happens it will make the difference, not just by thinking that. Like the old swamis and vedāntīs (propagators of Vedas) proclaim, ‘I’m brahma (supreme universal spirit, Godhead)!’. They even argue to prove they are brahma! But just by saying can they be brahma? They eat food, need to go to the toilet, they shiver in cold and yet continue to claim they are brahma! Can brahma shiver in cold, or can it get indigestion? The important thing is to understand reality. Reality can be harsh, but isn’t it equally beautiful as well?

“You can do this meditation of mother Earth [..]. Nobody meditates on Earth. Have you seen anyone do that? Has any so-called god-man ever said that you should meditate on Earth, that she is our mother, the basis of our existence? Meditate on Her, then only you will develop an understanding of your own existence.”

Q: “Guruji, you had mentioned that you were looking into some methods to communicate directly with Mother Earth?”

Guruji: “Yes, the research is going on. You can say that the success is just looming on the horizon; can already see it, just have to reach there. Have discovered a few techniques and processes after doing a major research; now I’m looking for the original touch. There are also some mantras of Earth, and fire rituals. They are very rare to find.”

Q: “That’s probably why they are hidden.”

Guruji: “They are hidden because they are not in convention; nobody cares for them. People are worshiping the goddess of wealth, Vishnu, or some other gods. But nobody cares about our real god.

“My mind is opening up. See, I received a natural-found śiva-liṁga. But ultimately it was given by Mother Earth only! I’m worshiping the śiva-liṁga, offering milk to it, etc, so in a way, I’m worshiping her as well. Also the female signs of śakti that we found: they were given by Earth herself. It’s not like they fell out of the sky.

“One most astonishing thing has happened here: we are totally stunned, and amazed as well. You remember the Neem tree next to the hall? It actually had menstrual periods! And it happened on the first day of Navarātri. Aren’t these the signs of Mother Earth?”

* * * * * *

Q: “Guruji, I read the first chapter of jñāna khaṇḍa. It’s amazing! There’s an argument in there that as long as there are responsibilities a man can never be happy.”

Guruji: “These are great discussions of great people. And see, immortal beings are discussing! Can you imagine their point of view, how far would that be?

“In a way, the only emancipated person is the one who is immortal. Since everybody depends on Earth, from gods to a common man, an immortal man can do anything they desire. They are totally free. They don’t have to worry about changing their form, and nobody can cause them any harm either. Once Mother accepts you as her own, nobody can harm you in the entire world, because Earth is everywhere. It’s a marvelous and very significant concept.

“Immortal beings must be the most relaxed people on Earth.”

Q: “Mother Earth’s standards must be pretty high, she probably doesn’t accept just anybody.”

Guruji: “Who knows? She is a mother. She looks after even those who don’t care for her. If somebody cared for her, who knows what she’d do for them!

“All the riches come from Earth, all the knowledge comes from her. Our existence depends on Earth. If such a divine being starts favoring you, then there’s no end to happiness.

“It’s a major realization, that’s why we have started so many Earth related activities. Even found her meditation form in texts: A brown-skinned, supremely beautiful woman, who’s donning green clothes and whose hair are also green, and who is feeding a sprig of wheat or rice to a parrot. That’s her human form.”

Q: “I haven’t found much about Mother Earth in religious texts.”

Guruji: “Nobody will teach this, no religion will talk about it. There are some hints in Vedas but not a whole lot of details. But it is an honest observation. It’s a blessing from guru mahārāja that this thing came independently to my mind.

“This is probably why the ancient ṛṣis used to live close to Nature. The farther we have gone from Nature, the more complicated life has become.

“Some time back, an archeologist, who had a PhD in this subject, came to visit. He had brought a small, knife-like stone instrument of the cavemen. He told us that it is not even possible to make such an instrument today – the way it was cut and had been given treatments. It makes us wonder whether the people who we call cavemen, were they really cavemen? Or were they so advanced that they had become one with Nature?

“The result of development is not that you keep building sky-scrappers and exploit the nature to such an extent that even your existence comes under question. That is not development. The ultimate development is that we become one with Earth, we merge with Earth. Remember, Mother Earth is the Supreme Soul!

“To become aware of Mother Earth is a big deal. Then only we’ll be able to say we are down to earth.”


Guru Gorakhnath, Shrinath-ji, and Datta Guru

Q: “Guruji, I’ve read that old yogis always lived or roamed around in solitude.”

Guruji: “They used to, and to accumulate energy also followed celibacy for a particular duration. But nobody knows what happened to them afterwards. For instance, Matsyendranath was trapped in the Triya kingdom because of Hanuman-ji’s instructions, and then Gorakhnath freed him. But happened afterwards? There’s no story of them after that; there’s total silence. Then suddenly Shankar-ji’s stories start, that he’s doing penance in the Himalayas and is a very accomplished yogi, then Daksha Prajapati gave him his daughter, then Himalaya later. Why did all these start at Lord Rama’s time, and not before that? Could it be that it was a continuation of guru Gorakhnath’s story? Shankar-ji also has Nath get-up, and in ‘Skanda Purana’ and ‘Shiva Purana’, Shankar-ji is saying he is Gorakhnath himself.”

Q: “But Guruji, Shiva-ji is also Adinath, the first Nath?”

Guruji: “Yes, is it also said that Adinath first came in the form of Gorakhnath. It’s very complicated. and And only he is always doing meditation.”

Q: “Who is he meditating upon?”

Guruji: “Well, the simple answer is that since his devotees are meditating upon him, he is meditating upon his devotees. But the actual thing could be entirely different. To understand it the mind has to reach that level. An immortal being, who is all-powerful, and the entire creation and all the spirits are his parts in a way, how to understand what is he meditating upon?? In a religious sense people say he is meditating upon Krishna or someone else but I don’t believe that. When we meet with him we’ll ask him, no other way to find out (laughs).”

Q: “I found that Agrawals history also has references to Guru Gorakhnath.”

Guruji: “The impact of Gorakhnath on Agrawals is clear. They hail from Agroha/Rajasthan where everybody believes in Gorakhnath. 22 states in Rajasthan recognize Guru Gorakhnath and other Naths as their official gurus. Who is Punjab doesn’t bow to them? The honorific “guru” is associated with only these two – Dattatreya (Datta Guru) and Gorakhnath (Guru Gorakhnath). And ‘Guru Purnima’ is his birthday. He was born on that day, and later Vyas-ji was born on that day as well. Mysteries are increasing. ”

Q: “Am not sure if the solutions will come.”

Guruji: “We are only equipping ourselves better over time. In the beginning I had no idea but these things have revealed themselves over time. At least I’m sharing all this with you guys. When I was your age, I didn’t have any idea about these things. Only after finding their natural marks (Shivalinga and Devi’s breasts and vagina) that my attention was drawn towards Shiva and Shakti. Finding these symbols also means that they have a direct blessing on me.

“Earlier I only bothered about yoga – used to sit in practice day and night, till 3am. Got tremendous results from that. Powers, or should rather say, abilities also developed. Wrote the commentaries in Gita, Yoga Darshan, etc, and only after all that and after starting to live in Smashan (cremation grounds) these signs came. That means Nature has tuned with me. Another remarkable thing is we never found any other gods’ marks, except Shiva and Shakti.”

* * * * * *

[About Shrinath-ji, who is the presiding deity at Nathdwara. There’s confusion about who he really is, since Shrinath is also a name of Lord Krishna, Guru Gorakhnath, as well as Shri Matsyendranath]

Guruji: “People say that Lord Krishna is Shrinath-ji, since he’s the swami of Shri-ji, -Radha-ji. But that’s not really true. Somehow there’s a mystery behind how these cults started. Badrinath temple deity looks exactly like Babaji sitting in padmasana. It seems like they went into backdrop over time and something else came forward. The city itself became Nathdwara – ‘Home of Naths’ – when he went there. There are some obvious facts that are getting ignored due to sectarian fanaticism.”

Q: “Guruji, what’s the relationship between Datta Guru and Guru Gorakhnath?”

Guruji: “It is said that Datta Guru started the Nath cult. He is the giver of magical powers and immortality as well. There’s a Siddha cult who can do miracles with the help of Mercury and Sulphur. That too was started by Dattatreya Maharaj. He always guides from the backdrop. He is the one who gave Kapalika get-up to Lord Shiva, and also established the Aghora path. Aghora means ‘pure beauty’, not ‘terrible’ as is generally understood. It is completely opposite of that. If one is immortal, there will be no fear for him. and For fearless, there’s only beauty and nothing’s horrible. A strange point of view will develop.”

[20110324-3] Recorded: Jan 2002

Commentaries, Immortality, Babaji

Guruji: “Sometimes I feel that if I hadn’t been working out with Mudgars (heavy Indian clubs) or Bullworker, I would have had nervous breakdown in Gwalior itself – commentary on Gita, Yoga Dardhan, Shiva Sutra took such a tremendous effort! I’m glad that I had been doing body-building which is why I was able to tolerate the experience. See for yourself – anybody who has done commentary on Gita didn’t live much longer after that. Except for Sri Krishna, he lived for 36yrs after saying Gita.

“It has been 12 years now. I don’t feel like looking at my books again – may be the mental fatigue of the work is still there in the mind. I answer when someone asks a question about my commentary, otherwise I don’t talk about them. Repetition of what I said 12 years ago get a little bit irksome. A yogi’s mind continues to develop. These books clarify the fundamental understanding. In the last 12 years, a lot of intricate details and peculiarities have become clearer now. Mr X came the other day to discuss my commentary on Gita. It was my good fortune that he developed fever the next day and I was spared (laugh). If you can live with Mr. X for 2 months, you’ll definitely become paramhansa. See, I’m telling you a short-cut to achieve paramhansa state. And if you don’t become paramhansa, will have to put you in a mental asylum and bring you flowers (laugh). God really listens in difficult times. I was getting very concerned about the impending doom (laugh).”
“You must have noticed that your face looks younger after practice. Sometimes I feel that the secret of Babaji’s immortality is hidden in these yoga practices. Otherwise the change in skin tone or the younger look on the face would not have been possible.”

Aditya: “Guruji, why the old gurus, Lahiri Mahasaya and others, did not maintain a young look or live a long life?”

Guruji: “Lahiri Mahasaya’s case was different. Babaji had given him specific objective, which he was able to successfully accomplish with single-minded and concentrated work. His body also didn’t have the qualities required for preservation for longevity. Your body needs to be qualified to be immortal. These yoga practices that I teach have been introduced after a long time. I do feel there’s something about it, somewhere there’s the secret of immortality hidden in it. The body gets stronger with age and the looks remain the same. Of course, the brain also develops, which is the key objective. I have observed one more difference. My aura has turned bright white now. It used to look golden but now it is crystalline white. This change came about in the past few months. Outer edges are golden but inner area is crystalline white, and it is as bright as before. It’s a sign of progress.”

Q: “In Oscar Wilde’s novel “The Picture of Dorian Gray”, the picture grows old but Dorian Gray doesn’t. What do you think about this story?”

Guruji: “I’ve read it. It’s a psychological novel like Dr Jekyll and Hyde, that every person has an other side. I really like his work. His story ‘The Canterville Ghost’ is quite hilarious! Have you read it? It’s very funny. Actually it’s a satire on a typical American family.”

Q: “I’ve also observed that sometimes the expression or the mood in a photograph appears to change. Is it psychological or does it really happen?”

Guruji: “It actually happens. What is a photograph? It’s a likeness. That means, if there’s a strong connection between you and the person in the photograph, like with your parents or Guru, or if the person is mentally very powerful, you may see their expressions change on special occassions. It’s a communication link. For example, Babaji’s murti (idol, effigy) has sometimes totally different expressions on his face! Many people have seen that, way too many. Day before yesterday, some people observed smile on the face of our Hanumanji’s murti. They got very scared.

“I’ve observed that with my photograph taken at the cottage (in Gwalior). My looks and expressions keep changing in that photograph. Some days it looks very powerful, some days very weak. Some days the face is very bright, sometimes irritated. This means that whatever is my mood that day gets reflected in that picture. “

Q: “You had mentioned the look in Babaji’s eyes.”

Guruji: “Yeah, his eyes have a verrry ancient look in them. When you look at his physical appearance, he looks like a young man – you can probably place him in 35-40 years. But when you look into his eyes, they have a very ancient look. The impressions appear very ancient. This is sort of expected. What you experience is registered in your mind, and eyes reflect your mind. An immortal being’s eyes reflect all his experiences! He has a very penetrating gaze. It feels like he can see through you. You also feel very nervous in front of him. which is but natural. My last meeting with him was 9 years ago (Dec 1995). There hasn’t been any meeting in person since then. Even the second meeting was 7 years after the first one (April 1st, 1988). Let’s see what happens next.”

[20090801] Recorded: June 13th, 2004