scriptures – Conversations with Guruji

Ashwatthama, Mahabharata, Pandava’s Great Escape

Q: “Guruji, I couldn’t find the passage in Shiva Purana about Ashwatthama being a Rudra incarnation.”

Guruji: “They deleted that section in the edition of Gita Press, Gorakhpur. See, here’s another example of sectarian fanaticism: since they are vaishnava and since Ashwatthama is considered a villain by vaishnavas, they deleted that passage from the text. Find the original full text; the one published by Chowkhamba is good.”

Q: “Did they make modifications in Mahabharata as well?”

Guruji: “There have been some modifications, but not a whole lot. In the 4th chapter, Ashwatthama’s physical description is given – after Karna’s death when Duryodhan goes to him. It’s an amazing description! Sitting in Himalayas in his camp, body is like gold, Dronacharya got him after a long penance of lord Shiva, his eyes and shoulder and voice were like Shiva’s vehicle, Nandi, has curly hair, all the knowledge of vedas, etc. And his experience when he’s about to kill the Pandavas in their camp: it’s an amazing description. Just imagine, he’s still alive today!

“All incarnations of Rudra are immortal, which is a strange thing. Well, who can kill him who is everybody’s death.

“Have I told you about the end of Pandavas? Since you’ve now touched on Mahabharata, listen to this as well:
Pandavas had a major feud with Ashwatthama. Krishna also took Ashwatthama’s gem from his forehead after Vyas-ji told him to give it. The enmity that developed as a result of that gemstone was so fierce that first of all all Yadavs died. And Krishna’s death is also a mystery. One who’s entire family has died in front of his eyes, do you think he would go take a stroll in the woods? And what kind of a stupid hunter would confuse a human foot with the mouth of a deer?? It’s not possible. And then, someone who was able to tolerate such horrifying missiles and weapons (astra shastra), could he die with a simple arrow wound to his foot? It is also a mystery how he died; he was just found dead in the woods.

“Also see the calamity on Pandavas’ family and Krishna’s family: nobody was left alive after enmity developed with Ashwatthama. When Arjuna reached home after cremating all family member of Krishna he must have been terrified. Even on the way home the punishment had started: the wives of Krishna were looted by the tribal. The Pandavas were so terrified after seeing all this that as soon as they reached Indraprastha, they immediately took off. And the manner in which they left is really strange! They got rid of all their clothes, all their royal signs and paraphernalia, and put a pebble in their mouths and took off. Nowhere in the old scriptures it is mentioned that one should leave like this to die. The chapter is called “Mahaprasthanik Parva”, and if literally translated in English, it would be called, “The Great Escape”.

“After their flight, not for one instance they ever looked back. Dhristhadhumna’s death was still clear in their minds, who Ashwatthama had kicked to death and didn’t use even a single weapon to kill him; he was killed like a dog. And they ran so terrified that they didn’t even stop for water and not even to cremate the body when they started falling one by one. As a Hindu you know that without cremation or last rites, there’s no transition (gati) of the soul to the next level. And we have the proof of that: when Yudhishthir went to heaven – that must have been due to the effect of Ashwatthama’s gemstone -, he saw that all his brothers and wife were in hell.

“And look at their family: Parikshit was cursed to die by snakebite. He took all precautions and did all due diligence, even read Maha Bhagvat, but ultimately died by snakebite. And people who die by snakebite are not cremated, so even he didn’t transition over after he died. And if he had been liberated as people claim – think of this as our deduction and I’m Sherlock Holmes and you are Dr. Watson -, his son, Janmajeya, must have celebrated. Instead, he did a big yajna (sacrificial rite) to take revenge on snakes and killed thousands of them. And even then he couldn’t kill Takshak snake who had bitten Parikshit. Parikshit was also killed in the womb by Ashwatthama, he was just living on borrowed time, and ultimately died of snakebite only.

“After Janmajeya, nobody knows what happened to that family. I’ve seen people with Kaurava surname, but not with Pandava surname.

“See what happens when you pick a fight with an immortal! Lord Krishna suffered calamity because of Ashwatthama’s gemstone. First he got a bad name stealing Syamantak stone and also had a quarrel with lord Balarama because of it, and then after Ashwatthama’s gemstone both families got wiped off.

“For an incarnation of Rudra, snakes will always be under his command. And according to Astrology, after killing a snake, the person’s astrology is also afflicted with Kalsarpa Yoga, which means extreme dejection and poor conditions which bring complete destruction. And if somebody has killed thousands of snakes, you can imagine what would happen to them.

“This is like reading between the lines. Facts are clear; you can derive you own conclusions. The whole psychology of Pandavas is pure terror: they won’t stop for anything, not even to help if one of them fell. Terror of Ashwatthama was in their minds. Ashwatthama’s revenge was also very thorough. If you read Mahabharata with this perspective, you’ll realize more truths. These are called Vyaskoots (Vyas’s puzzles). It is said that he has left such secrets in Mahabharata that only wise can understand. There are also some couplets which are difficult to understand; they are also called Vyaskoot.

“Guruji used to say that if you want to worship, worship immortals. Why worship mortals? It is absolutely right. He was indicating towards Shiva, versus incarnations of Vishnu, since Shiva-ji’s incarnations are all immortal. That’s why it is said that jiva (soul) is Shiva – it is immortal. Only body dies.”

Q: “Guruji, is there a difference between Shiva and Rudra?”

Guruji: “There’s no difference. Rudra is his name. It’s definition is also given in the fourth chapter, somewhere in the end of Drona Parva: ‘rooh dukkham tat drayanti sa rudrah’ – ‘From great (ru-h) sorrow who liberates (dra-yanti) is Rudra’. Also, Shiva-ji’s worship, abhishek (anointment, consecration), is known as Rudrābhiṣeka, not Shivābhiṣeka.”

[20110324-3] Dated: Jan 2002

Mahakala, Vibhishan, and the Seven Immortals

Q: “Guruji, I read that in the war with Banasura, Lord Krishna defeated Lord Shiva as well. Is that true?”

Guruji: “Actually Shiva-ji told Krishna to use jambhastra on Him so he that couldn’t help Banasura. And Lord Krishna didn’t kill Banasura, only defeated him and cut all of his 1000 arms but 4. It’s interesting what happened to Banasura. After the battle, Nandi suggested him to dance for Shiva. So in this amputated state he did Tandava for Shiva! After that Shiva-ji made him Mahakala. Mahakala is Banasura only. It might have been a test for him, to see if he could still perform in this condition. The description of the dance is wonderful! He danced his eyebrows, produced different sounds, and all this while fully covered in blood! You’ll find this story in Shiva Purana, Harivansha Purana, as well as Mahabharata.

“I have read about two Mahakalas: Banasura who even Shri Ved Vyas has referred to with great respect in Mahabharata, calling him Sriman Mahakala. One more Mahakala is a brahmin named Mante in Skanda Purana, who became Mahakala with his penance.

“Ved Vyas has also said that Sukracharya and Brahaspati (Jupiter) are one and the same.”

* * * * * *

Guruji: “You know why Hanuman-ji contacted Vibhishan when he went to Lanka? Vibhishan was chanting ‘Rama Rama..’, so Hanuman-ji immediately knew that he would get his brothers killed (laughs). Obviously, if somebody’s chanting the name of their brother’s enemy then clearly they are looking to get their brother killed. He eventually became the king of Lanka, and took his sister-in-law, Mandodari, as his wife. That means his intentions were always bad. If he had not done so, and had not taken his elder brother’s wife whom he should have respected like his mother….

“Vibhishan is also immortal. Maybe Shiva-ji made him immortal to set an example that a brother should not be like this. He’s a antithesis of how a brother should be.

“All traits are represented by the seven immortals. A son should be like Ashwatthama, who left no stone unturned to avenge his father. A donor should be like King Bali, who gave away the three worlds! A man of knowledge should be like Vyas-ji who classified the vedas and created the puranas. A brother shouldn’t be like Vibhishan who got his own family killed and dared to take his mother-like sister-in-law as his wife. An uncle should be like Kripacharya, who had the secret of immortality and who supported his nephew and made him immortal as well. A devotee and a hero should be like Hanuman-ji, who went beyond possible to fulfill his duty. Kartum – what is possible, akartum – what is impossible to do, and anyatha kartum – if there’s anything beyond possible and impossible, he did all three. And a guru should be like Parashuram, who established discipline as well as an immortal tradition, with stalwarts like Drona, Ashwatthama, in his lineage.

“The next hierarchy of gods is going to be permanent. Hanuman-ji is the new Brahma. Wow we are entering actual Sat yuga. Also, Vibhishan is under Hanuman-ji’s control so all the rakshasas are under control. It might have been part of the deal with Vibhishan, ‘whatever you are doing at home with your sister-in-law, don’t create any disturbances in the creation’ (laughs).”

[20110108-2] Recorded: Dec 24, 2003

Decoding Mythology, Prehistory, and Origins: Part 1

Guruji: “… that’s why ramta jogi is compared to flowing water – it has no destination. Today here, tomorrow somewhere else, because he doesn’t have any obligations. A person sticks to a place only if he has some obligations.”

Q: Guruji, we were talking about Indo-European languages earlier. It appears that Sanskrit, Greek, and Latin have a lot of similarities, but there’s no such similarity between Indian languages – for example, Sanskrit and Tamil don’t have any.”

Guruji: “Yes, Sanskrit and Tamil are not similar. Tamil is more ancient. It is considered one of the most ancient languages, the original Dravidian language. I think the originator was Agastya Rishi, when we went to South India on Shiva-ji’s instructions. Sanskrit is originally considered the Aryan language, language of the gods.”

Q: “If Sanskrit is originally Aryan, then are we from outside?”

Guruji: “Here’s what I’ve analyzed: In olden time, in the glory of the king they used to say, ‘The one and only emperor from the Himalayas to the ocean. ‘ In this, ‘From Himalaya to the ocean’ includes the Indian peninsula, the complete Asia, Europe, and even Africa – African continent was attached before, it’s only separated by a canal even now. In Mahabharata also, it’s clear that the original Hastinapur was in Egypt. Pandavas were given khandawaprastha area which wasn’t developed. That was in India, Indraprastha, near Delhi. So basically the Indian peninsula was mainly inhabited by tribal people and ascetics who were highly advanced but also lived in harmony with nature.

“I think the first invasion was in the times of Lord Rama. That was also an interesting discovery. If you get a chance, refer to the Egyptian history – I read this in an article many years back: Ramases first was the king of Egypt. His father’s name was Dashrath. His wife was abducted by some Indian king, then his army general was sent to kill the Indian king and rescue his wife, and his capital was Ayudya named city situated near Haryu river which flows in the Middle East. We all know that they pronounced ‘sa’ as ‘ha’. May be Saryu became Haryu. I haven’t gotten a chance to read the Egyptian history more extensively, but take a look if you could find a reference to this.

“Another evidence is the exact route of the ‘grand escape’ of Pandavas described at the end of Mahabharata: First they went east and then crossed the red sea, etc. The red sea is in the east of Egypt only.

“I think these old civilizations were very advanced and used to live all over the place. Aryan civilization, or call it Arian civilization, because Arian is a Greek word which means Martian or influenced by Mars. I’ll give you good reference – it’s a book by Acharya Chatursen, ‘Vayam Rakshamah’. In the first half of the book, he’s extensively discussed this topic. Basically, he postulated that the old vedic kings were actually kings of the entire Earth. He also analyzed the phonetics of the roots of their names. Also, in wars, we’ve heard about the battle on Sumali grounds in Afganistan. Sumali was Ravana’s grandfather. There’s a lot of influence of Rama’s name. For example, there’s Ramallah where Yasir Arafat was captured. Even Rome appears close to Rama. Also, the Muslim month of Ramjan could have been derived from Ramajanaki. Jamshed, which is a popular Parsi name could be Yamashid. Macca Madina could be makhbhedani (the holy grounds of yajna). Africa also has many such names. For example Timbaktu is considered a distortion of taamrakunda (copper pool). There’s a place called Masnaar where king Marut did a grand yajna. They still find holy ash in the 100 miles area around. It’s somewhere in the Congo basin. It was also referred in the book of Sudarshan Singh Chakra.

“From all this it appears that once upon a time the vedic civilization had a great impact. What we call European culture of the white race only became prominent from time of Merlin the magician. Before that the British empire was nothing. The empire which king Richard the lionhearted established kept expanding with Merlin’s help. Now nobody knows the history before Greco-Roman times. If you read in Ramayana, there’s no description of upper body clothes for women. That means they used to live topless. It’s not possible to think about those times. Also the story of Troy is very similar to the story of Rama-Ravana war, if you take the Trojan horse part out. Heroes came out from Troy one at a time to fight and die, as what happened in Lanka. And the way the trojan horse was brought inside was similar to the way Vibhishan took Lakshman inside to kill Meghnad. These incidents have a ring of similarity.”

Q: “This appears inconsistent with the general claim that there wasn’t much of a human civilization 2-3 thousand years ago.”

Guruji: “That claim is wrong, as proven from the photographs that NASA released of setu-rama-baandh and clearly indicated that it’s man-made and gave a timeline of 750,000 years ago. I have also seen these photographs. If there was nothing 3000 years ago, how would the prehistoric man make that bridge 750,000 years ago which must have required a significant engineering feat? Sea-level has also increased since then, so the bridge is now underwater. Also, the timings of Treta yuga and Raam-Ravana war also matches – it happened 750,000 years ago which surprisingly matches the timeline of this bridge.

“I feel that with technological advancement, our understanding of history will also improve. For example in Peru and places of ancient Mayan-Sumerian civilizations like lake Titikaka, they’ve found many channels made of stone as if they are for energy flow but there were no wires. Few years ago people used to say that since there were no wires, these civilizations couldn’t be very advanced. Now everybody’s operating wireless! May be they were even more advanced than us and we are not able to understand them. Pyramids, for example, may have been built in Lord Rama’s times or Pandavas’ times, who knows. Otherwise why are they exactly in that particular location? What happens is that the western mind thinks according to itself; their understanding revolves around the Bible. They are not able to go beyond that. Some day if a researcher comes who would do an unbiased study of the Indian mythology and the Greek mythology and the other myths spread all over these lands, he would be able to get a better understanding of our past. All these things are nothing but evidences, recorded in one form or the other in different mythologies.

“There are some common records as well. For example, the great deluge. It’s in almost all mythologies. In Hindu mythology, Manu went on a boat after the flood. Bible say ‘Nooh’ built a boat. People started saying Noah’s ark but the original Hebrew name is Nooh. Manu and Nooh are so similar!

Q: “Guruji, what people originally inhabited India?”

Guruji: “Basically Dravidians used to rule here, who never used to invade anybody lived in harmony with nature. Their houses and cities were built in Harappa / Mohanjodaro style. They were very advanced and peaceful people. Aryans started the invasions. They must have come from the Middle East, because, as we discussed earlier, both Rama’s kingdom as well as Pandavas’ Hastinapur appear to be in Egypt. I just remembered a Tibetan book I read long time back; It described Kalki avatar to be born in a village named Sambal, and Tibetans have placed Sambal in Moscow, that Moscow is where Kalki would be born. That is a Tibetan point of view. I think when we think about our mythologies, we should take the entire Asia, Europe, and Africa into consideration. Only then we’ll be able to decode it’s secrets. ‘From the Himalayas all the way to the ocean’ has been repeated multiple times to describe the prominent kingdoms of the old.

“In a way even America was attached at some point through Alaska and Siberia. now this is from the current time frame. if we go even further back, geography says there was only one land, Gondwana. The shifting has happened later, continents started drifting away. There was only one land-mass. May be the descriptions in our Puranas was from around that time. But since Puranas refer to Himalaya, we can say they were written after Himalaya was formed. But I think there’s no reference to Himalaya in vedas. May be, I’m not sure. In Puranas there definitely is, also in Ramayana. But even in some of the old Puranas there’s no reference to Himalaya. For example, Vamana Purana has no reference to Himalaya. Neither in vedas’ richas (verses). Mountains are mentioned, Sumeru mountain is definitely referenced quite a lot. This means that some hints about the previous geography has reached us as well.”

[20110108-2] Recorded: Dec 24, 2003